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OneUp V2 Build Log. - mr_intensity - 2018-01-20
The Beginning (again)
Since the "new" forum is still kinda thin on content, I figured I would publish a build log here, as I attempt to build a Q3D OneUp V2 kit. I can document some of the mistakes/pitfalls I face, as sort of a pre-support role for others (i.e. You learn from my screw-ups).
For those not familiar with my odessey, I purchased a OneUp V2 kit a year ago, had a broken and a missing melemite part, tried to get support from the manufacturer, and got nowhere.
Anyway, I was all ready to attempt to build a Snappy 2.0, using the motors and electronics from this kit, when MrAcoustic really convinced me to attempt to build the OneUp.
Of course, it is a lot easier to get a friend with a 3D printer to print two small parts, than it is to get him to print an entire printer. :-D
So, the adventure begins...
RE: OneUp V2 Build Log. - mr_intensity - 2018-01-20
Extruder Sub-Assembly Part I - Not the Print Head
Many mistakes, many lessons learned. More parts needed.
So, First step was to bust out OpenSCAD, and attempt to define the missing/broken parts for a buddy of mine (with a 3D printer) to print up. My definitions were bad. My EIFRAME piece was a little bit small, and the holes were a hair too close together. I was off on several dimensions on the SIDEBRACE piece. But, I was close enough to get started, so the adventure began...
The OneUp V2 destructions have you start with the Extruder assembly. So, for starters, I put the Tensioner sub-sub-aseembly together backward. Then, I could not put it into the Extruder sub-assembly. Had to take it apart and do it right.
First lesson learned: The Melemite parts have a "front side" (nice finish) and a "back side" (unfinished), which have NOTHING to do with how the parts go together. Sometimes, the "back side" has to show, because that is how it was cut out of the melemite.
In other words: Assemble for function, not looks.
Tip: When I put the Tensioner Sub-sub-aseembly together correctly, I had it too tight, and the bearing wouldn't spin. I figured this out later, and had to remove it from the Extruder Sub-assembly, loosen it up, and put the sub-sub-assembly back in. Pain in the tukkus. DON'T make the same mistake. Make sure your bearing spins before installation into the Extruder Sub-Assembly.
Trying to put together the Extruder Sub-assembly is when I realized the holes in my printed EIFRAME piece were too close together. Out came the Dremmel™ tool, and...Okay, I lied. Out came the Drill Master™, Harbor Freight's Dremmel™ tool wannabe, and I went to work with a very thin sanding/polishing stone attachment. I had to cut the semicircle a little larger, and I had to drill the holes out a little larger.
Second lesson learned: 3D printed plastic does not create "plastic sawdust" with a high-speed polishing stone. It melts.
Then it came time to handle one of the Nema 17 motors. For some reason, I could not screw in the set screw (in the Filament Driver Gear - FDG) loosely so "...the gear coulud be moved, but not fall off." Either this thing was snug enough to not move the gear, or it was completely loose. And yes, I did have it lined up with the flat on the motor shaft. Oh well, just have to be careful with it so it doesn't fall out.
Of course, if I had actually LOOKED at the picture in Q3D's instructions, I would have seen that the teeth were pointing toward the motor, not away. More on this in a moment.
Stacking many differing layers together (like ECFRAME, EPFRAME, EHFRAME, three EIFRAMEs and EBLOCKs 1 and 2) and then trying to run a screw through all those tiny holes that you need to line up, is like hearding cats. Nothing wants to stay together long enough for you to get the screw in place. The ECAPSPACER part of the Tensioner Sub-sub-assembly was exceedingly difficult to keep in place to get it into the Extruder Sub-Assembly.
Anyway, I got everything together, nice and tight, when it came time to line up the FDG "teeth" with the bearing from the Tensioner Sub-sub-assembly.
Hey, this gear won't slide any lower because the gear body is in the way because...the gear is on upside down! Take the motor off (while trying to keep the screws threaded through all those layers of everything else) and turn the gear around. Hm. Now that set screw can "snug" FDG, without "freezing" it. Who'd a thunk it?
Third lesson learned: Pay attention to the instructions and stop putting stuff together backward.
I left nothing to chance. I adjusted my gear while the motor was off. I lined the "stack" up over the motor, eyballed the gear-to-bearing alignment, made adjustments lined them up again, etc. I figured I would get the gross adjustments out of the way, while the gear was "snug," and make fine adjustments after the motor was situated. It ended up that my alignment was fine once the motor was bolted down, and I could just tighten the set screw.
Important tip: Before screwing the motor to the stack, make sure that you rotate the shaft so the set screw is pointing out the opening between the Tensioner and the EIFRAMEs, so you can get your hex key in there for final tightening.
Okay, next I dry-fit and then super glue EBELTMOUNT (which is actually labelled XBELTMOUNT in the BOM document) to the assembly. Dry fit is good. But my one tube of super glue appears to be dried out. Now, I bought this small tube as part of a set of small tubes of super glue, I just don't know where all the rest of the glue is. I'll come back to gluing later.
A thought: According to the destructions, you adjust the tensioner assembly with the M4 nut. Why? That nut is kind of hard to get at, and you need a tiny wrench. It makes more sense (to me) to super glue that nut in place, and do your adjustments at the other end, using your hex key, on the M4 bolt head.
Just make sure you glue the m4 nut to the EBASE and not the M4 bolt :-D
Also, why only one M4 washer? The ESPRING appears to be small enough to push against the M4 bolt head, but it also looks like the ESPRING will eventually separate around the bolt head. Why not just have a washer on both ends of ESPRING?
I'm going to the hardware store for an M4 washer. I am also picking up two M3x15mm screws, and probably super glue.
Why do I need two M3x15mm screws? I'll get to that in Extruder Sub-Assembly Part II - The Print Head.
RE: OneUp V2 Build Log. - mr_intensity - 2018-01-22
Extruder Sub-Assembly Part II - The Print Head
Mistakes afford an...opportunity...to learn.
So, the hardware store does not have M3x15mm hex cap screws. They only had 16mm and 12mm. Since I wasn't sure, I bought two of each.
Useless fact: I bought a set of metric screws/bolts a while back, for general use, but the smallest pieces were M4, so I couldn't use them. :-(
Anyway, the 900 pound elephant in the room is: Why do I need these screws?
Well, it appears I actually got a OneUp V1.75 kit, or a OneUp V2.5 kit, as some of the instructions did not match the parts.
Apparently, at one time, the entire back end (where the filament comes in) of the extruder inserted into a hole in EBASE just barely big enough to hold it, and two M3x25 screws screwed into the assembly, perpendicular to the print head, on either side of the print head, through a groove in the print head, in order to secure the print head.
The parts I got do not match these instructions.
My EBASE has a "double hole" in it. The "just big enough" hole is now offset,and connects to a smaller "groove sized" hole. You insert the back end of the extruder through the bigger hole, line up the groove with the thickness of EBASE, and slide the groove into the groove-sized hole. The head snaps into place, and is held rather firmly.
In my honest opinion. I believe this new way of mounting the print head is an improvement over the old way. And yes, as kits progress from V1 to V2 to V3, sometimes the documentation lags behind. I have so many other reasons to bad mouth Q3D, I don't have to complain about this lag in the documentation. I was able to figure it out.
While this new mount is an improvement, there are a couple of drawbacks. First, the EIFRAME pieces of the stack interfere with inserting the back end into EBASE.
Tip: Once the stack is bolted together, EBASE has no bolts running through it. It is just a press-fit. It can be removed to accomodate installation of the print head. Once the print head is installed on EBASE, you can plug EBASE back on to the stack.
Secondly, with the machined groove no longer clearing all the way in to the stack, the M3x25 screws now have nowhere to go (they used to go through the groove).
Now, one could argue that the screws are no longer needed. However, there are two reasons why I think they should be there:
1) The screw heads are recessed into EBLOCK2, which is currently held on with only one one screw, and wants to flop around. The two print head screws hold EBLOCK2 in place.
2) One of the screws forms a barrier preventing the print head from "snapping out" of the smaller section of the double-hole. Also, screws that are snug enough against the head will also prevent the print head from twisting in the hole.
The solution, of course, is shorter screws. My measurements had me shortening the screws by about a cm (10mm) to 15mm. As already mentioned, the hardware store did not have that size.
My first attempt was to use the 16mm screws, and those worked just fine. The one drawback to any screws is that they really do not have a hole to go through. There are these little semicircular holes in the edge of EHFRAME, and the screws kind of act as a wedge to pry EBASE off the stack.
Either way, the screws are now in place.
XBELTMOUNT (OR EBELTMOUNT, whatever you want to call it) is now Super Glued in place. I got the Krazy Glue™ brand, in the pen dispenser, so I could get accurate control.
I tried to leave the M4 "adjustment nut" in place, with the screw, and sort of "tack weld" around the nut with Super Glue. Initially, this appeared to be successful, but it came off the following day. So, I removed the M4 screw, laid down a good pool of super glue around the hole, and laid the M4 nut in it. I waited about half an hour to an hour for it to dry before adding the adjustment screw back on. No dice. The screw would not screw into the nut. If I flipped it around, and screwd it in from the wrong side, it worked perfectly. Apparently, the hole through EBASE and the tensioner sub-sub-assembly somehow hold the bolt crooked/crossthreaded so it does not go in clean. Once I broke the nut free of the stack, it would screw on to the bolt properly.
I may have to 3D print a wraparound "nut trap" to hold the nut in place, so I may adjust from the screw head end. Or maybe replace the nut entirely with something 3D Printed.
Speaking of the adjustment screw, the M4 washer that the hardware store sold me is slightly smaller than the one that came in the kit. No matter. I put the new washer on the screw head side of ESPRING. The entire assembly just feels more solid, now, with that washer in place.
While that adjustment screw was out, I was playing with the tensioner sub-sub assembly, and found that its bearing was not spinning freely. See my tip in the previous post on this subject.
With the super gluing done, and the new screws in, it is time to snap the cooling fan/shroud into place on the print head, and declare victory.
RE: OneUp V2 Build Log. - Mooselake - 2018-01-22
Try greasing the screw first, then use it to hold the nut in place, tighten it just enough to hold the nut where it belongs. Remove it after the glue is set up but before it's fully hardened, again carefully. You might want to hold the nut in place, try some plastic wrap so it doesn't stick to your fingers.
I'd probably use 5 minute epoxy instead of CA glue, but then again I've got a shelf full of different glues (not always an advantage, just replaced my CA glues with a direct Starbond order because they were old enough they turned into goo in the bottles, remembered to date them this time) and perhaps I'm a bit excessive.
Post some pictures; if you upload them to the site then resize to somewhere around 640 wide and save our fearless leader some disk space. YouTube video (no music overdub, steppers sound fine on their own) is great too, just remember to make it public.
Kirk
RE: OneUp V2 Build Log. - mr_intensity - 2018-01-24
Kirk - Thanks for the tip. I have some 2-part epoxy laying around. Although 3D printing a solution might be more fun!
As far as the pictures go, it is not so much the resolution as it is the compression. I take photos with my smartphone (high res), import them into the GIMP (open source photoshop), do some annotation on them, crop off some excess background, and then re-save them. During my save, I get to give it a "quality" value. The lower the image quality, the better the compression. I'm feeding in ridiculous numbers (like, 25% quality), and I am STILL getting pretty good pictures. I am compressing multi-megabyte images down to hundreds (or even tens) of kilobytes.
RE: OneUp V2 Build Log. - mr_intensity - 2018-01-24
SIDEBRACE Analysis
I'm so happy, I'm ticked off.
As I stated previously, the 3D printed replacement parts were "off." Not Steve's Fault. I gave him bad definition files.
The key here is that the one thing I got right in my definitions was the thickness of the parts. Since EIFRAME was being used as not much more than a spacer, it's length could be slightly off (sitting in a stack with other EIFRAMEs) and it could still take up the needed thickness space. I just needed to adjust the holes.
With SIDEBRACE, its tabs plug in to other pieces, so the thickness (amongst other dimensions around the tabs) had to be spot on. It was. Further, just about everything "critical" was on, and mostly irrelevant dimensions were off. I screwed up on one corner of one tab on SIDEBRACE, requiring me to use hacksaws, files and grinding wheels to try to remove excess material.
While happy that my pieces needed little modification, I was also kind of ticked off at the piece that Q3D produced. While I might not bust their chops about the lagging documentation, there is no excuse for bad design, requiring me to get on the soapbox.
(SOAPBOX)
Okay Q3D, I get it. You are a business, and you have to constantly look to reduce your costs.
But there is an old saying about being "penny wise, and pound foolish." You are laser cutting these parts out of melamine (which I keep erroneously referring to as "melamite"), at a cost of probably a penny or two a piece. That extra "bulk" that you are trimming off is probably not going to another part, and is ending up as scrap, anyway. So, what cost have you really saved?
Furthermore, by engineering in a very thin section in your parts, causing those parts to be received (by the customer) as broken, you are getting requests from customers to ship replacement parts. Not only are you eating the cost of the replacement part (a penny or two), but now you have to deal with shipping the part (probably at the cost of a dollar or so). And let's face it, the shipping is going to be a padded envelope, and the replacement part will probably also be broken in transit.
Having to deal with little "nickel and dime" support issues like that, it is no wonder you guys have stopped supporting your products. Design the parts right from the beginning, and you do not have this minor (yet costly) support issue.
(/SOAPBOX)
Anyway, I took my OneUp kit to my EAA Chapter's Build Night, as my Build Night project. Step one was to modify my SIDEBRACE pieces. Paul loaned me his "Tiny Tim" hacksaw, and I cut the tab of the first SIDEBRACE down to size. Next to correct the area next to the tab. It is not flush with the other side of the tab, and is only thick by something like a millimeter or two. Too thin for even Tiny Tim. So, I tried a grinding wheel. Results can be seen in the attached photo.
On the second SIDEBRACE, I put the piece into a vice, and used a file on it to make that minor second correction. Much finer control for a much finer correction.
Side Note: I inappropriately declared victory on the Extruder, last post. I had not added the bearings to the assembly, so I actually was not finished with it.
On to the gantry assembly.
RE: OneUp V2 Build Log. - Mooselake - 2018-01-24
(2018-01-24, 02:01 AM)mr_intensity Wrote: Okay Q3D, I get it. You are a business, and you have to constantly look to reduce your costs.
I haven't been able to confirm that Q3D is still a business.
Coincidentally I spoke to a customer service rep (for a humidifier, not QB) in Little Rock today and in passing confirmed that Little Rock still exists, but it wasn't an appropriate situation to ask her to run by and see if the lights were still on at Quint. We bought a new humidifier yesterday (in a big box store a hundred miles away, and for a bit less than what a 1^ used to cost), and when plugged in the fan had a serious noise problem. She listened to it over the phone and arranged to ship me a replacement for the complete top part of the humidifier - not just the motor with my free labor - right away with no hassle. Had Q3 learned that lesson there might not be any question about their continued existence.
Kirk
RE: OneUp V2 Build Log. - mr_intensity - 2018-01-26
(2018-01-24, 06:16 PM)Mooselake Wrote: I haven't been able to confirm that Q3D is still a business.
I base my statement on the fact that q3dprinter.com (the store site, that will gladly take your money, if you give it a credit card) is still up and running just fine. It is only the link to their support site that gives the 500 Server Error.
Now, you peaked my curiosity. A quick Google search involving QU-BD and BBB reveals that the Better Business Bureau gives QU-BD an "F" rating. The complaints go all the way back to their Kickstarter campaign, where they were trying to raise $9,000.00 and ended up raising $400,000.00. You would think that, with all that extra money, they could have afforded to hire one or two people as a support staff.
They do **not** report the company as being out of business. Although, I believe that they only do that for a year after the business closes. So, QU-BD could be out of business for more than a year, and BBB may not have it on their website.
Sources:
https://www.bbb.org/arkansas/business-reviews/online-shopping/qu-bd-in-little-rock-ar-90276210/reviews-and-complaints
https://www.bbb.org/arkansas/business-reviews/online-shopping/qu-bd-in-little-rock-ar-90276210/Alerts-and-Actions
They also list a phone number for QU-BD, if anybody wants to waste the time calling it. Although if still in business, and actually answering their phone, the conversation would be hilarious:
"Yeah, we're just calling to see if you guys still exist. Oh, you do? We were kind of wondering as you have closed off every support contact that you guys have. Yes, I click there and get the same 500 Server Error that I have been getting for the last six months. No, somebody else bought that domain name, you don't run that forum anymore."
Interestingly enough, there are ZERO reviews for the company out on bbb.org. Hm. Maybe we should fix that.
The sad thing is: I got no response to my issue. Even an E-mail stating that they could not ship the parts, but here are the *.dxf files (to have the parts made locally) could have "resolved" the issue. But, they did not even try.
I wonder what it would take to have the "authorities" shut down the q3dprinter.com site as "fraudulent?" Maye that would get someone's attention
RE: OneUp V2 Build Log. - Mooselake - 2018-01-26
That just means that they have a shopping cart and possibly an automatic money collection system - I'm not willing to try mine to find out. There's actually a lot of dead sites that will take orders and your credit card #. The BBB has rated them as "F" pretty much forever, the fine print says it isn't the level of complaints but rather Q2.5's refusal to address them.
Courtney, Chelsea, and Nathan haven't been involved for many years.
I called that number, it still answers although it goes to voicemail with an automated repetition of the phone number. Interesting. I didn't leave a message, if they call back (which would be surprising) I'll note it here. Reverse lookup shows it as QU-BD Inc.
RE: OneUp V2 Build Log. - mr_intensity - 2018-01-31
Gantry Sub-Assembly
With a little help from my friends.
As mentioned in a previous post, I had taken the OneUp to my EAA Chapter's Build Night, as my Build Night project. This is good, as I have a lot more experienced makers that can give me advice. It is also bad, as things went together so quickly that I did not have too much time to photograph/document what has happened.
Step one was to "fix" my SIDEBRACE pieces, which I did. Step two was to complete the Extruder Sub-Assembly, by adding the LM8LUU bearings, held in by the XBEARINGMOUNTs, which I also did.
By now, a few more guys show up for Build Night, including Rob. Now, Rob helped me inventory the kit, last year when I got it. He is really good with tools, and is a hands-on sort of guy. He is not a "computer guy," however, and he finds the whole idea of building a 3D printer from a kit to be totally fascinating. More than me, he is the one guy in the chapter who wants to see this thing running. When he saw I was building the kit, he jumped right in, and pretty much took over the assembly. Ken also joined us, a little later.
The main pieces of the gantry went together pretty quickly. There were three large screws, with one of them just a hair larger than the others. This was the 1-inch screw to be used on the Belt Tensioner Sub-Sub Assembly. Even with it being the longest of the screws, its threads could not reach the back piece of Melamine to "dig in" and hold. Rob, unflustered, walked over to one of our many screw-and-bolt cans, and found a 1.25-inch bolt within a minute or two. So, we used a hex head bolt as opposed to the screw (with the hex-shaped "slot" in the head) that came with the kit.
Soon, it came time to super glue the belt to the print head. On our first attempt, we stuffed wadded-up paper towels in the gap in the print head (where the belt travels) to create pressure on the belt to hold it in place while the Super Glue set. No dice. On our second attempt, Ken stuck his finger in there, and held the belt against the print head for the entire five minute set time. This meant pressing against the "teeth" in the belt, and Ken had deep "teeth marks" in his finger at the end of the ordeal. No broken skin or anything, but still sore enough to be annoying for a minute or two.
Speaking of super glue, I got the Krazy Glue™ brand, in the "pen" dispenser. I chose this because I liked the fine control I had over where I could put my drop of glue. We had one or two places where the screws went in to the melamine a little loose. One of the screws attaching the Derlin Acme Nut to the gantry was one such spot. In these instances, we touched up the back side of the hole with a drop of two of Super Glue to help reinforce the connection.
When we were done, we had a print head that slides nicely on its bearings, and we can feel the "steps" of the motor, as we slide the head, and it moves the belt which turns the motor.
With the Gantry out of the way, we tackled the Chassis.